In partnership with Shred Media, we are spotlighting women who are making advancements in mortgage technology and driving our industry forward. In episode two, we’re featuring three award-winning product leaders who are fundamentally transforming how home loans close in the U.S. Tune in to hear ICE Mortgage Technology’s Nancy Alley, Vice President of Product Strategy, Rebecca Frisbie, Director of Product Management, and Tiffany Bjarnson, Senior Product Manager, discuss the current state of the eClosing landscape, their approach to product development, and how technology is enabling lenders to meet the evolving needs of both their borrowers and their employees. Join us and get to know the women behind the technology that is connecting more people to the American Dream of homeownership.
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Welcome to our open house. Instead of examining hardwood floors, closet space, and kitchen layouts, we're taking you on a tour of what's happening across today's mortgage industry. During each episode, we'll hear from industry leaders and subject matter experts to give us an inside look into a hot topic, Cuttingedge technology, or new trend that can help accelerate your digital journey. Thank you for joining us. Come on in.
Hello and welcome to another episode of the ICE Mortgage Technology Open House Podcast. My name is Michaela Rosendaal, Senior Marketing Manager here at Ice Mortgage Technology. And once again, I'm excited to introduce to you another episode in our Woman in Mortgage Technology series. Continuing our partnership with Shred Media, we are spotlighting women who are making advancements in mortgage technology and driving our industry forward in Episode 2.
We're featuring 3 awardwinning product leaders who are fundamentally transforming how home loans close in the US along with their approach to product development and how technology is enabling lenders to meet the evolving needs of both their borrowers and their employees. Without further ado, let's listen to this engaging and exciting conversation.
Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the Shred Show live. I have got three incredible ladies hanging out with me today and we're about to have a conversation. Ladies and gentlemen. Our industry is evolving. It's changing more rapidly than ever. Innovation is happening, pioneering is happening and these three ladies have helped. All three of them are recent award winners in the field of innovation within our mortgage industry. And I cannot tell you how excited I am to get into this conversation with Nancy Alley. Tiffany.
I'm Tiffany. I'm totally gonna slide her last name. That's fine. Be Arnsen. See a weird call. I was not gonna do that. And then Rebecca Frisbee, we're gonna have an incredible conversation. But before we do a huge happy birthday to Nancy Alley, she's joining us on her birthday. She said what better way to celebrate my birthday. Then come shred with all of you. So it's gonna be an amazing conversation. We're going to talk about equals. We're going to talk about innovation. That is happening. And like I said, there could not be 3 better women joining me for this conversation today. Ladies and gentlemen, Are you ready? Are you ready? It is time to shred, ladies.
And gentlemen, I cannot tell you how excited I am to continue. This is Episode 2 with Ice Mortgage Technology continuing on of the women that are truly shaping, that are evolving, pioneering and innovating within the mortgage technology space and these amazing, phenomenal stupendous. I had to come up with different adjectives. Nancy really wanted me to hit on those today. So I had to come up with some great adjectives. But I cannot tell you how excited I am for this conversation because.
As we all know, this industry that we know we love and we have been in and been part of for so many years, it is evolving. The world is changing. Consumers want a different experience and we're going to talk about E clothes and how it truly is shaping. But at before we get into that, these incredible women, these phenomena I can't use incredible, Nancy told me. I'm not gonna can't use that, these stupendous women, these absolutely brilliant women today.
Are going to be sharing about E clothes and like I mentioned in the beginning, all three of them are recent award winners within the space of technology and innovation. So I want to get to know them. Let's get to know these these amazing women before we get in the conversation. Nancy, you have been part of this industry. You're veteran of the industry. Let's start with you. How did you get started in this industry and what helped you get to where you are today? Sure. Well, first of all good morning excited to be here. I actually go all the way back to high school. I was a processor in high school during the summer.
Think you know, electric typewriters and carbon copy forms. And then during the school year when I could only work part time, I worked in the post closing department, which funny enough I was tracking down missing recorded mortgages at the county and come full circle at Simple File. That's one of the problems we solved in the industry. So I go more further back than I care to admit. But then mortgage has been in my blood pretty much my whole life.
So how did I really get to where I am today? I really would say it was two things. One is I've been blessed to work with and for some incredible leaders and they were willing to take a chance on me and probably more importantly, let me take chances, take risks. And this is something, this is a piece of advice I would give anyone. The biggest leaps in my career have always just I've always been when I was out of my comfort zone. And so that that's always something that I think about when you push yourself, you kind of push yourself forward.
And then the second thing, and I always tell my kids this, it's just don't worry about what your job is, just do something you're passionate about and the success will come right? And I, I, anyone who knows me knows that I'm super passionate about taking this industry digital.
That's I absolutely like we could end right there and like that was a great show. We have some great little Nuggets right there and we're good and happy birthday to Nancy That's what we could just say that we'd be good sign up. I say let's call it mic drop and we're out. But thank you so much for sharing so many of that and it really is and there's it's fun because we even mentioned this prior to the show. It's about our this community with within the mortgage industry is so small as the people we know, the people we connect with, people surround ourselves with. So I absolutely love that. Tiffany what about yourself get us shares a little bit about yourself how you got started and what.
You get to where you are today. Yeah. I mean, I'm going to go all the way back to the beginning of of my life, basically, and and say it started for me with my parents. I was raised by two extremely, very passionate business people. My mom was a creative CPA, if you could imagine that. And is that is that possible? It's possible. Is that legal? Yeah. OKOK. Let's not take, let's not take it that that. Thanks for twisting my words, Nancy. And my dad was awesome.
Also an accountant, but he was an entrepreneur and he always had multiple businesses that he was running or starting. And one of those was a business building houses, residential houses. And I vividly remember growing up around the dinner table talking about solving problems and brainstorming and.
It was just kind of built into me. Long story short, I worked for that company for a long time. So you can basically say I've been in the industry most of my life and that passion kind of followed me into college. I kind of logically knew I wanted a business degree, but I accidentally fell in love with computer science along the way. I'm coding and ended up pursuing a degree in Information systems.
And then after that, I was looking for a place to kind of like Nancy said, find a place where my I could grow my passions. And when I finally found Simple File, it was this perfect trifecta for me of being able to work alongside some of the most brilliant, smart, kind, innovative people that were just as obsessed with solving business problems using technology in the mortgage space. It's just kind of been magic since it.
It's been magic. That's not a word that's been magical. It's been almost like going to the Magic Kingdom. That's literally what our industry is. You walk in the Mortgage Conference, you walk into ICE 2023 and it's magical. That's what I'm excited for. Look at that. We're already getting ready for ICE 2023. I love it. And it's it's fun that you got your start early on in your career with it And then Rebecca, now I.
We were kind of joking with this. Rebecca is she's been in the industry just as long as all the she's at one of those most experienced and all three of you actually met on a project prior to coming to is mortgage technology. You actually at again going back to community, you met outside of the company and now again you've built this incredible team. Rebecca, I'm excited to get to know you and your how you got started and what helps you get to where you are. Well I also grew up in the mortgage industry. My dad was an appraiser for World Savings for 35 years. So I grew up.
I grew up holding his tape measure while he was measuring and visiting houses, and so I used to go on runs with him to do that. And when I graduated and I started college, I wanted to, you know, in my rebellious youth, wanted to wanted to stay as far away from mortgage banking as I possibly could. I want to do something different. You can't do that.
And what ended up happening is I answered an ad at the job board at my college for data entry and it ended up being for a mortgage document company. So I started doing data entry for a mortgage document company and fell in love with mortgage documents. So it's crazy to say I say whoa.
But I remember driving around delivering documents to different mortgage companies many years ago and so kind of got my start there. So the rest is history. I'm kind of the the docs expert at ICE. I run all of that. So it's been a long evolution. If you were to have asked me where I would be, I would have never guessed it would have to do with mortgage documents, so.
I like that. It's fun just to hear the three different stories of how again, you all have, like, they're really intriguing, interesting, you know, some started with parents is involved with it and then you fall in love with mortgage documents. That's just one that's still blowing my mind. Right? Because I'm just like, man, I filled out so many ten, oh threes I filled out. So I'm just like, oh, like I just don't know about that one. But I'm, I'm excited to dive into our conversation because as I mentioned all three of you recently won awards and innovative advancements within this industry.
And this in particular the the when people hear E close, especially people are like, ah, you know, it's a buzzword in our industry. But there have been a lot of recent advancements within the industry moving to a fully digital closing experience. Like even more people are like a mobile experience, a digital experience. When did you all realize? When did you actually realize that our industry was ready for this? When when were when did we realize that it's like, hey, now is the time to accelerate innovation, now is the time to really go all in.
And where did the first steps really start in this journey? Nancy, let's start with you on this and then we can kind of go down the line. Yeah, sure. So funny enough the federal ESIGN Act, so you know the legislation enabling ESIGN you know for all documents not just mortgage, but it was enacted shortly after I bought my first home. And as a consumer I was in the mortgage industry as I said, but as a consumer for the first time of a mortgage I it was a terribly.
Clunky paper pen and paper type experience and you know you have that epiphany as a as a consumer of point this has to be be able to be done better. And the other interesting thing is I was in the very industry that I was critiquing, right. And so you know it's like well maybe I should try to do something about this. So myself and a few of my peers actually left the jobs we were in and we started a startup called sign online with a focus on E signing and E vaulting in in the mortgage industry.
And you know, fun facts on a line by name doesn't exist today, but through acquisitions still exists in the industry and still is involved in digital Closings and evil things. So it kind of I'm no longer with them obviously enjoying my time at ICE, but kind of that vision lives on, which is super cool as well. You're truly the pioneer of all of all that's going on today. That's amazing. It's funny because when I first got my start in the early 2002 is the same thing I was like.
This, as a consumer buying my first house, I'm like, this sucks. Like, this is terrible. This is such a crappy experience. But it's it's interesting too. I think some people forget that it was the early 2000s that E close began. Like that's when things first started actually happening. There's a lot of people who try to take credit, like, oh, I was the first guy who closed the Fully E transaction and this and that, and we won't give it. That's a whole another story. But it is interesting that it's been around. But the evolution, especially this pandemic that we had has pushed these even more and more and more. And it's fun because.
Even back in the early you know 2010's and and coming out of you know the the global meltdown of our industry, it's it was fun to see the industry evolved then but now more than ever I mean look at ICE mortgage technology and all that they do in the realm of of technology and it's really exciting. What about you Rebecca? What what it when did you see it when you're like hey this is continuing to grow this continuing now it's the time to accelerate this innovation when it comes to E clothes.
Yeah. No, I had a kind of a around the same time that Nancy had her epiphany, I was with the team with the mortgage document company that started moving disclosures over to electronic signing. And so we kind of pioneered, you know, making that available to our customers at the time. And I kind of knew then that like E clothes would be kind of the final frontier for moving things digital.
You know, but we couldn't get there without getting the disclosure process there first. So I kind of knew that eventually we would get there and I kind of always felt that I would be a part of it somehow. That's awesome. And what about yourself, Tiffany? When did you realize that like, hey, this, this, this has got something to it? Well, I think I was really lucky because when I joined Symbol File, the company was already really underway with executing overarching vision of moving.
Manual, heavy process paper processes to a digital world when that was to take a mortgage or deed and get it recorded at the county electronically. And there's a lot of success stories we can learn in that because it's been extremely successful for simplify, but it's taken 20 years.
But for me personally, I started focusing on continuing to grow the number of connections between our settlement agents and our counties, making sure that the integrations that we had were working as smoothly as possible and in that process in the spirit of real innovation.
You know where you're asking what's missing? What are we not solving correctly? What else do our customers need? We kind of realized that it was. We needed a technology that did more than just connect settlement agents and counties to be able to legally record a document online. We also needed a place where they could see.
In one place across all the different counties. So for example, if you're trying to record a county or a deed at a specific county, you might think a deed is a deed. Rebecca won't because she loves stocks. But but a deed is not a deed. Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Rebecca. A security instrument is not doesn't mean the same thing to each county recorder and they're going to have nuances and differences and so.
We kind of uncovered that they're really what the settlement agent was looking for is a way to speak the same language across the board so that they could scale. And I think it's just continued from there. There's this passion that we can take the same framework of growing that earlier in the life cycle to collaborating with lenders both before deering and after the closing. I like this and I kind of want to actually take the conversation in that direction because.
There's a lot of collaboration that happens and we all know this. All of us have been in this industry for a long time when it comes to developing new technology, especially in the mortgage industry. You've got regulation, you've got compliance requirements, everything needs to be considered. So what were some of those hurdles? I mean you even mentioned this a little bit, Tiffany's, you know you run up against hurdles you have.
Out some challenges that occur, what were some of those that you that the team and ICE really encountered and how did that impact the product strategy and then how did you overcome those? And Rebecca, I'd really like to start with you on this. Yeah, yeah, actually interesting story. I don't, not many people know that prior to being acquired by ICE, Ellie Mae had already partnered with Simplify.
And we had started working with the simplified team on our E close solution. And what was interesting about that collaboration was that we kind of had all the key stakeholders or representatives of all the key stakeholders in the room as we were designing the solution. So I would come at it from the lenders perspective and I'd say okay, well I think we need to do this. And then Tiffany would be like Rebecca, you need to remember settlement agent is going to want to do this.
And so what's ended up happening when the acquisition occurred, it was like, oh, well, we were already working together. Now we're teammates, we're officially teammates and we've continued to have kind of the, the three Amigos, if you will, in the room. And we debate things out as we come across issues of, you know, Tiffany say, oh, well, why don't we just do this And I'd be like, no, no, no, you can't do that because of this.
And so we're literally, you know, kind of arm and arm representing both sides of the transaction or the clothes I should say as we solve all of these little problems for our customers. I love the collaboration again that is I think some of the building blocks of our industry and coming up with chant when you we have challenges.
Really relying on each other, but being able to push back. And again, having these incredible heads, like coming together and saying, hey, you know this, how about this? And try this. Tiffany, what about yourself? It sounds like again, you've been an instrument, a part of this. How has this helped you as well with it? Well, I just wanna know that Rebecca loves collaborating with me.
Great. Is that what you call it, But really that's where the, the creativity comes is when you're willing to bring different perspectives and try and solve something a different way. So you asked for some examples in the challenges that we we found through this process and what business strategies we built to overcome those. I want to touch on three very briefly the 1st.
Is common across any industry when you're trying to innovate that no matter how amazing the technology, no matter how amazing the solution, you can't break the process that's already working. You loans still need to get closed, documents still need to get recorded. Basically it doesn't work to ground the plane, make a bunch of really cool changes, but in the process all the customers wanting to get to a destination have left.
So we built a technology we were very mindful of that, that we could allow our customers to take one step at a time towards where they were ready to innovate, where they were in the process, their company was in the process of innovating and so that they could move that forward. And the next thing is transparency. I think it's a common story. It's surprising how common it is in our industry, but kind of along the same lines of collaborating from each other's personas.
You hear lenders saying, I don't know what settlement agents are doing on the other side of that wall, but I have no visibility and it takes a long time And and you're hearing the same thing from the settlement agents and they want to know what's coming on the pipeline so they can provide better service. And there just really isn't that transparency and we we focused on that and it's complicated. Rebecca's nodding your head because it's not as simple as just surfacing information, it's it's knowing the workflow and the customers well enough.
To know what's going to be important for them to have. And what we've built is so transparent that some of our customers don't really believe that it's as real time as it is like they're like really the settlement agent can see the actual status of this. Yeah, you guys both have the same status, real time of what's going on with these documents. And so they just can't believe that that between the two systems that they're that tightly integrated.
Yes, exactly what Rebecca said and it's you can feel the passion because this is we are super excited about solving this pain, pain point for our customers. And last but not least, I think this is one of my favorite and I kind of alluded to it earlier and the first word that comes to my head is like the problem of cognitive dissonance. I know that's.
The wrong phrase in this and the internet's going to come for me after this. That's fine. The trolls are coming, the trolls are coming. But basically having to be an expert in all those details, having to to know all these different things to complete a task. So when the industry started moving towards this adoption, it was really exciting. You could see a lot of lenders out there that were wholeheartedly moving to this technology.
And trying to go into a digital world, but in the process what we found and from a settlement agent perspective is that the settlement agents were getting increasingly frustrated because this was creating a very inefficient process for them. Each lender had it, it was adopting the technology to their workflow, their use cases and now the settlement agent had to continue their manual process. But they also know how to learn all these new technology platforms and so.
It actually was slowing down their part of closing the loan. And so really the the, the point that I want to emphasize is that the more nuances that we as humans have to know and retain in our brain, the less room there is for us to put energy and time into the more important things like building connections with our customers and.
This is my favorite part. We yes, that and that that is really the most perfect. We like to call the solution to this the power of 1 and it's 1 workflow, one place, 11 common language that our customers can go to to get again that transparency, but also to see across the pipeline what needs to be done, what hasn't been done and I think that's extremely powerful.
I 100% agree. And to all of this, Nancy, I want to kind of give you the final thought on this part in particular just because both Rebecca and Tiffany have mentioned this collaboration has been instrumental in all of this, but more it's a demand from the industry like you're hearing from lenders, you're hearing from your partners.
And it's, it's one thing when a technology company says, OK, here's a problem, here's a, you know, here's a challenge, I'm just going to go and solve it. But it's another thing when it's like how can we solve this together? How can we ultimately help our customers, our end consumers, those who are going on the journey of buying a home? Ultimately that's what we're trying to focus on. That's the the problems, the solutions we're trying to come up with and that's a big part of it. So for you as well, I mean you've you've helped overcome these challenges, these solutions, but how's that been for you?
Yeah. So it's interesting. You know they give their their very product focused responses which is awesome. But you just mentioned demand and I, you know demand like you're saying you're kind of taking up a level, right. And I don't think we have demand challenges like you just said, lenders want this, consumers want this.
But we do as an industry have adoption challenges which is kind of what Tiffany was alluding to, right. So I think spent a lot of my time thinking about how do we handle the adoption challenges. I believe we should be have hybridly close on 90% of all loans in the industry, 99, zero, but we're somewhere South of 20%. You know we don't have exact stats but it it's abysmal and so you know you earlier this you mentioned regulatory compliance.
Right there. There was no forcing function with E clothes. There is no forcing function like with E clothes, like a regulation. Even though we know it's good for the industry, we know it's good for the consumer. It helps lenders save money. There's nothing forcing lenders to do this. So they want to do it. It's not a demand issue, but they do have to meet compliance requirements, you know, breathing down their neck of certain deadlines, right. They've had tremendous volume and you know, production.
Not concerns, but it's been good the last couple years, not so much this year, but right. But still you when you're busy, you're busy. And so how do we get over that hurdle? I think the pandemic you alluded to it earlier, Josh, was the closest thing we had to a forcing function and certainly up the demand for digital Closings, right. But we still have adoption challenges as an industry. It's it's not a technology issue. And so I would really echo when when I think about this every day, it's literally how do we take the friction out of adoption.
And you know, Tiffany, she gave her airplane example, but you know, it's meeting users where they are, what system do they work in? What where, where do settlement agents go? She said they don't want to go to 30 different systems because the lender each picked a different technology. How do we bring them together, create those connections in a way through systems they already use or through workflows that they already use and?
We haven't done a great job of that as an industry. It's something this team focuses a lot on. When we when we talk about the part one, that's not a joke, it's something we actually talk about. Don't move their cheese. I don't think E clothes should be special. I love that we're doing this today and we get to call it special and be special with you, but it shouldn't be special. It should just be part of how they close loans, right? And keeping that workflow.
Whether they're drawing a 100% ink package because in this case they have to do pen and paper or they're doing a fully digital package, I don't think the workflow should actually change and just simple things a little bit. So that's something the three of us talk about a lot.
Well, I want to stay on this a little bit, but kind of change it because I do 100% what you said. I think we struggle with an adoption issue in this industry. It is not technology like technology is our friend. Technologies continue to advance, but it's it's adoption and whether it's cost, whether it's too difficult, whether it's, you know, our teams doing this and that, whatever it is, there's all kinds of excuses that we can make. ICE recently made this huge announcement like I was just.
Blew my mind when I heard on my holy cow that the hybrid E close solution that ICE has would actually be available to your customers for free. Like, what drove that decision? Like it wasn't part of an adoption, was it part of like, hey, we're gonna at least eliminate this part of the equation. It is one more excuse that you can't have anymore. It's not a costing anymore. I mean, what drove that?
Right. No, it's pretty crazy. I'll take that one. If you're, if you're good, I mean I think it's because that ICE we believe ECLOSE is is the future and where we need our lenders and ultimately where the customers need to go. We everyone talks about a better consumer experience when they talk about Eclose. And so I think that one is accepted. But we've done the studies, we've looked at there's real ROI for a lender, it saves them money to go this direction. And so you just want to remove, I talked about adoption friction.
We don't, you know, lenders are having a tough year, right? I listened to the podcast a couple weeks ago with our peer Stephanie Marcy and we talked about this industry cycles, right. We're not a down cycle. And so right now they're very focused on cost. And so we didn't want the price of hybrid E
clothes to be friction, right. We wanted them to be able to without hesitation move to a workflow in a direction that's better for them as a lender and better for their customers just without hesitation.
So it was as simple as that. It sounds crazy, but we believe ultimately it is the right way to go crazy. It's amazing. When I was like, whoa, like holy cow, all of a sudden you have an incredible company. Like I saying, hey, you know what, We are gonna we understand this just shows that the level of commitment and dedication that the ICE team has for our industry says.
You know what? We're gonna, we're gonna remove this equation. Yes, we may lose a little bit in the long run here, but we're willing to sacrifice to continue to better our relationships, to continue to better our industry. So we're going to give this to you. Like, here you go. We know that you're struggling. That just shows. Again, you guys have mentioned the passion for this industry. That shows the entire executive team, all of you who are spending countless hours behind the scenes.
It just shows how truly committed all of you are, the passion and the love you have for this industry. It really does like it sounds like so cliche, but it's true. When you see a company make decisions like this, it just shows it goes above and beyond of what we, we truly need more of in this industry. So for me, it's exciting. That's one of the reasons we love collaborating with ICE, because it just is.
I want to, as we start to wrap up this conversation here again, the the E close word is such a buzzword. It's such something people are talking about a lot in the industry. As a matter of fact, we're talking about it later in the week with with another with another company as well discussing the importance of it. But I want to, I want to ask this and Rebecca, I know you've got a strong opinion on this one, so I'm excited to hear. But what does the future of E close look like? Like I said, we've heard so many people say this and this about it. Everybody's saying it's going to go to a completely mobile E close experience, but.
What does the future of E close look like? Really the future of E close is just take the E off of the end of it and it just digital is the way you close your loans. I thought when you say that, but it's it's that simple. It really is though. It's that simple and Nancy alluded to it. You know, we kind of go back to, you know, we live by the mantra of the power of 1 really there shouldn't be.
A bifurcated process to go digital. You know you're always going to have a borrower that needs to sign a tradition in a traditional manner for whatever reason. There's a litany of reasons, right? But that shouldn't change the lenders workflow. It should be, oh, I need to do this one paper and send it through the exact same workflow, same as if they're doing a full eclipse.
So I'd like to you know I envision kind of a future where there is no E close, it's just how lenders close loans. It's just part of the regular process is going back to what and Nancy mentioned earlier, right now it's 80% still doing the traditional close 20%. We need to flip that immediately like we need to get to 80% close or E close if you will at 20% or even less than that 99% you're closing in a digital manner and and less than 1%. But it's just
I told you, it's funny because Tiffany asked me, how do you get so pumped up? What are you drinking? They get so excited all the time, Josh. And it's these conversations because again, it's just having them, sharing them, educating our community. Because sometimes, let's just be honest, not to call out anybody here, but sometimes we're stuck in the old ways of our industry. All of you ladies have been in this industry for a long time. You've seen the evolution of it. And we just need to talk about, we need to share, we need to share the simplicity of it. And that's why the ice team is so amazing, because you've allowed it, You've taken price.
Of the equations that hey, we're gonna we're gonna open this up and now let's share it with the world let's get them educated on it. Plus it goes to consumers as well and I know that's something that we're all working on is educating our consumers us all you professionals out there in the trenches. It's just simply educating our consumers. It's educating the homeowner and the home buyer on this and just showing them it's such a it's a better process Back to Nancy's point just not cuz she's the birthday girl as well but her first experience buying a home. My first experience buying a home.
It sucked like it can be simpler. We can make it. We can make it an enjoyable process. Can you all imagine the day when your buyer says, wow, that was amazing. I love that I can't wait to buy another home because that was fun. Like, that's the day that we all look for. So ladies, this has been an absolutely just an astounding conversation. I can't say brilliant because I've already used that. Apparently, Nancy said I can't use that. Stupendous.
But it really has and I hope all the, I know everybody listening today has got something out of this. And ladies, I cannot thank you enough for all that you have shared, for all that you have done in the world of innovation and pioneering this incredible industry. You are absolutely just amazing. Thank you so much for all that you do. Thank you.
Is my pleasure. And like I said, this is what this is what our industry needs more of it. It's incredibly brilliant to ladies like yourself who are willing to talk about it, who are willing to share and to educate all of us, us. We talked about wisdom before the show. I.
I am now wiser because I have hung out with these incredible ladies and I've learned something today. So with that, as always guys, if you have any questions, send us a message. And if you want to connect with the ICE team, we'll put a link below so you can reach out to them, so you can get involved, so you can start the E close process. Right now there's no more excuses. Get those out of the way. But as always, we appreciate you. We love you. Now it's time for all of you guys to go shred, go show up, hustle, repeat every day. See you.
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